twice he could have hired us. twice he didn't hire us. i think our work is a little bit--it has more depth and a little more--it's not obtuse, but-- >> you're saying that. >> you have to use your imagination a little bit. steve this is simple, this is what we're going to do. he's a dictator. he happens to be a good dictator. he was hard to work with. >> i don't think we worked with a dictator very long. that's the problem. >> gavin: are you guys dictators dictators? >> no. >> gavin: you're collaborative. >> i think we are. we have our own opinions. >> gavin: what happens when that opinion conflicts with your clients? >> oh, well, with the clients in the office we win. that's how it works. but no, with a client, no, no, you can't boss a client around. you have to work with them. it's like the republicans and democrats--see i'm getting to the politics. you got the two sides of the house. they're not going it work with each other. just in the going to do it nothing is going it get done. you have to work with the client--have to. >> gavin: ar